Comments on Escaping Armstrongism: The Sheet Vision

"But my teacher said that Jews who are famished an...

2008-10-29T05:01:00.000-04:00

"But my teacher said that Jews who are famished and had pork offered to them would eat it gladly, since they view human life as sacred."

Now that's a view you won't hear the evangelical ex-Armstrongists promote at all. Good for you, James, and I'm glad to hear it!

Good article. And I am glad you put your ideas out...

2008-10-28T22:35:00.000-04:00

Good article. And I am glad you put your ideas out there in plain english!
Took me a while, but my choice to eat or not eat pork or select seafoods is just that, a choice, not based upon spirituality, but taste and health.
A couple of books that I really enjoyed were by Andrew Murray written around 1898. "The Two Covenants" and "Power of the Blood". The Two Covenants really helped me to see the difference in a new way (w/o any Armstrong arguments) so I could get past all the things like food laws, holy days and such that I would come to question.
Journey on!
28Vet

Hi Mickey! Thanks for the input. I'm here to help ...

2008-10-27T13:42:00.000-04:00

Hi Mickey! Thanks for the input. I'm here to help people just like you with what little I have.

I'm no Greek master. The people in the COGs are generally not either. What they are is owners of a Strong's Concordance. Strong's, however, is no substitute for a real understanding of the Greek.

That said, I will do my best for you since you requested so politely. I can't turn down someone in genuine need.

Thanks for the article. Even though it may not ca...

2008-10-27T13:35:00.000-04:00

Thanks for the article. Even though it may not carry weight with those who are still trapped, it's really helpful for me because once in a while the old arguments will rise up to bite me and I feel troubled for a few days.

I wonder, though only if you have the time and inclination (or anyone with a bit of skill for that matter), if you would present a review of the usage of the greek in these scriptures respecting the words "common" and "unclean". The reason I ask is that someone at UCG gave a recent sermonette online (yes, I was silly enough to listen in - what can I say but curiousity) and presented his arguement from the greek usage of those words.

If you are interested, the sermonette is on the UCG, Lafayette, IN website.

I would be most interested to hear anyone's input on this.

Thanks again,
Mickey

I had a 7th grade social studies teacher who's Jew...

2008-10-23T18:23:00.000-04:00

I had a 7th grade social studies teacher who's Jewish, and we had an excellent class series on religion. He said that Judaism allows people to eat pork if their life is at stake otherwise. I'm not sure what traditional sources he was appealing to, since II Maccabees and IV Maccabees present devout Jews who died rather than defile themselves, when Antiochus tried to compel them to eat pork. But my teacher said that Jews who are famished and had pork offered to them would eat it gladly, since they view human life as sacred.

James Pate

Good for you, James in getting over those things. ...

2008-10-23T15:20:00.000-04:00

Good for you, James in getting over those things. But if it makes your conscience uncomfortable, then by all means don't do it.

I contended with a friend of mine who said if he was stranded on a deserted island and all there was to eat was a pig, he would starve. I doubt that because who can know unless you're in a position like that? But whatever. I told him I would be happy if he never ate pork for the rest of his life... so long as he never condemned someone who did.
I asked him if someone will live their who life perfectly, but eat pork, are they going to be left out of the first resurrection? He said 'no'. Well, if God won't condemn them, then in what way should we?

He agreed, but said he still won't eat pork. I say Good! So long as condemnation is removed, what we eat or don't eat is a non-issue.

I still have a hard time bringing myself to eat po...

2008-10-23T14:53:00.000-04:00

I still have a hard time bringing myself to eat pork. It's so greasy. Plus, I can use less cholesterol. At the same time, I no longer feel compelled to shave off bacon bits if they happen to be on my meal.

AMEN, Bob!My studies are very superficial compared...

2008-10-22T08:43:00.000-04:00

AMEN, Bob!

My studies are very superficial compared to, say, that of actual Bible scholars. I would like to be more in-depth, but who on earth has the time? Certainly not me! But even my cursory reviews show massive holes in Armstrong's ideas.

It hurts!! It hurt me to see that all I had hoped in for so many years was little more than a man's error. But there is such peace and joy knowing that finally I am moving forward and understanding this precious calling we have in the New Covenant.

If you have any studies you've done, or materials you recommend, please email me at my gmail.com account: escapingarmstrong

Up until about a year ago, I had left "religion" f...

2008-10-21T21:30:00.000-04:00

Up until about a year ago, I had left "religion" for over thirty years, right about the time when 1975 turned into a non-event. In fact, a bunch of us did. Amongst us were a few scholars, who had written some fairly conclusive papers, disproving some of the major WCG doctrines.

It was already obvious at that time that HWA had no clue about prophecy, although we didn't find out until decades later that there had also been "disappointments" fomented by this gentleman prior to World War II. Apparently he had not even considered that the state of Israel needed to be reestablished before the times of the end could be fulfilled, and therefore, expected Hitler to win WW-II.

What is now becoming more and more obvious, with the research on this site and several others, is that HWA projected the appearance of deep, authoritative research, when in fact, his research was often very superficial. He went just deep enough to draw legalistic conclusions, and did little to troubleshoot them. He also relied on the very poor research of others, such as Alexander Hislop, and Immanuel Velikovsky, to say nothing of the British Israel theorists.

The Armstrong phenomenon is typical of what happens with a self-important mogul or guru type who is unable to work with others, unwilling to indulge in peer review, and eschews constructive criticism. It is perfectly obvious why HWA's government of choice was "government from the top down," and why the more notorious of the splinter groups perpetuate it. Very little from the Armstrong camp is capable of surviving scrutiny, which is why extreme authority is required to keep it all together. That should be a pretty huge red flag!

BB

Thanks Anonymous.Yeah, you're right. It probably h...

2008-10-20T14:52:00.000-04:00

Thanks Anonymous.

Yeah, you're right. It probably has little weight with them. I know it would have had little weight with me only a few weeks ago. But such is life. And who knows? I just need to offer the alternative and I'm satisfied I've done my part. The rest is in God's hands.

This is also one of an unfinished series of posts that really should be taken together. I haven't gotten to Corinthians yet.

If you come up with relevant info, feel free to comment!

Good article, but it does not carry any weight for...

2008-10-20T13:54:00.000-04:00

Good article, but it does not carry any weight for those who can find their way around it, because they are still stultified by the Armstrong system.
But I Cor.10:25-27, is absolute proof that what you put in your mouth has nothing to do with sin-"Eat whatever is sold in the meat market"(NKJV)
Now Corinth was a Roman province, and sold all kinds of meats in the meat market, including pork,etc.
The Corinthians were Gentile converts. If this was a sin, then Paul did not mention it here,nor did he teach the laws of clean and unclean to these Gentile converts.